Q: So what’s the problem, Doc? What is the most morally troubling dilemma facing our generation today?
A: Individualism—being independent, focusing on one’s self rather than on community or college. American individualism, though it was that which would make us become this great country that we are, would also lead to our downfall—we would seek that which is good for ourselves and to heck with everything and everybody else.
Q: Where did we, as college kids, get this attitude?
A: I think your parents gave it to you. Unfortunately, I’m a parent of this generation, too. Though I would hope that I haven’t done too much damage.
Q: You taught a course with Rev. Will Willimon, former dean of the chapel, called “Morals, Ethics, and the Meaning of Life.” What’s the meaning of life?
A: I can tell you my meaning of life: It’s an individual kind of thing, and it also changes as life goes on. There was a time in my youth when I coached basketball in my native state of Indiana. Basketball is near religion there, and to a great extent, winning games was the meaning in my life.
Q: Basketball. I think a lot of Dukies would agree.
A: It got to the point where my wife said to me once, “You really ought to drop by the house and meet your child sometime.” I quit coaching shortly after that.
Q: How have things changed?
A: I’d only been [at Duke] a couple years when a cardiologist found out that I had heart disease. They did quadruple bypass open heart surgery, and I almost died during the process. Afterwards I re-evaluated my life—all of a sudden, my wife, my kids and my grandkids had become very important. I think now my meaning in life is what we can do together—how can we share our love; how can we share our appreciation of each other?
Q: And soon you’ll be retiring?
A: In June. I’ve got places to go, people to see. I’m going to have a great time giving back. Saying thanks.
Q: Getting away from all of the immoral college students?
A: Haha. I’ve had students mention the idea that in college, [ethics] are on hold. That they would get moral, they would get ethical, and they would discover a meaning to life—after they got out of college. But this Duke experience, this is a time of experimentation, a time to have fun, and so on. There’s interesting data that suggests that as students leave high school, they go from being religious to being agnostic or atheist. And then, a few years out of college, they go right back to being religious again. So there’s a period in there of trial and rebellion.
Q: What about ethics in today’s world, in the news? CEOs and their golden parachutes?
A: I actually noticed that Martha Stewart is going to have a new television show, an offshoot of The Apprentice. All this is being planned while she’s in prison. When she does this show, she’s still going to have the anklet on that lets the legal authorities know where she is. So what are consequences of being unethical? In her case, not a whole lot.
Q: Interesting. What’s your hope for the future of the individualists and unethical on this campus?
A: My wife tells me I’m becoming a curmudgeon, but when I was growing up I lived in a neighborhood. People all up and down the street knew me, and I knew them. You had a real core group of people where there was a great deal of love and respect. That type of thing is gone. You walk by people’s houses, and no one is on the porch—you just see the flicker of a television set and hear the roar of an air conditioner.
Q: Neighborhoods are gone for good?
A: I think they’re trying to maintain a sense of community on campus with the linking and all. But I would hope that individuality would lessen. I admire Dr. [Larry] Moneta for his attempts to get the plaza built—a common, pleasant place with benches for students to talk to each other. As beautiful as Duke is, there aren’t that many places for students just to informally congregate.... Have you ever counted all the places to eat at Duke?
Q: I haven’t.
A: Have you ever thought about it?
Q: Hmm. I feel like there are a lot.
A: They’re all over the place. Some schools have one or two places that kind of bring everybody together. That was the idea behind the Marketplace, but we don’t have that community over on West.
Q: What about the overwhelming sense of community that everyone raves about at tailgates in the fall?
A: See, but there can’t be that sense or community or social equality at the actual football game because you gotta have the booze. That’s unfortunate.
Q: So we’re individualists adrift.
A: Sometimes I think Duke is like Lake Woebegone—it’s a community where all the kids are above average. To a certain extent, that’s true. But then again, what’s average? You, yourself are in two different groups. I guarantee you’re above average in the group of college students in the United States, maybe, but you may not be above average here.
Q: Good point.
A: When we’re the top dog in high school—when we’re queen of this, captain of that—we kind of think the world was made for us. And it just isn’t. In the end, I’m not really concerned with the morality of people’s sex lives or how much they drink—it’s all in how we treat each other.
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