Some suggestions - key card access only to all common rooms and/or closed circuit cameras. Who do you think ends up paying for the stolen furniture, vandalized carpet, etc.?
A four letter slur about female body parts on the floor of a common room in a male/female dormitory is sexual harrassment and constitutes unacceptable behavior. Perhaps it is time for some all female floors in the dorms.
My own student has told me about this type of destructive behavior. It appears to be a Duke phenomenon. It does not happen at any of the universities or colleges attended by their friends.
It is time for Duke housing administrators - that's you, Larry Moneta, to take some action - if not for the destructive behavior - at least about the sexual harrassment of female students entering a common room to find slurs about their body parts on the floor.
AnotherDukeparent, thanks for the contributions. I will say, though, that I doubt DukeCard access to common rooms would prevent any problems, as most of the incidents are results of Duke student activity and it would be likely that the doors would simply be propped open anyways. Cameras to me seem to be somewhat of a band-aid approach, but maybe not altogether out of the question. I wonder, should we begin to blame admissions for allowing excessively destructive students to come to Duke in the first place? Also, it seems like a lot of destructive activity is perpetuated by frats (e.g. throwing furniture out windows) who are then simply allowed to pay their way out of the problems rather than facing any of the other ethical problems associated with their behavior. So maybe we should begin to rethink frat housing/presence on campus as well.
Also, on sexual slurs, what about the drawing of a penis etched into the concrete walkway on the MAIN WEST CAMPUS QUAD??? That has been there for months. Embarrassing.
After many years of being a Duke parent I have personally come to believe you are absolutely correct - admissions does admit students who are excessively destructive and/or have other personality disorders. Students who throw furniture out the windows should not be allowed to pay their way out of their problems. They should be expelled for violent activity.
I also believe that allocating prime housing space on west to selective living groups is not appropriate as they comprise such a small percentage of students and elite is a better term for them than selective. It's time that selective living groups be moved to central campus and their space be available to all students. Or they should become a club/organization that meets on a regular basis without housing just like the sororities have done for decades.
Any sexual slurs no matter the sex should not be tolerated. What do you think would have happened there was a racial or religious slur etched into the concrete walkway on the Main West Campus Quad?
How in the world does admissions know that a student is particularly destructive? I think that is an absurd accusation. Duke students are accepted by various schools all around the country, yet those schools do not have the same problems.
I think its more of a campus culture. Freshman get to East campus and there is nobody there (except for RAs who sometimes have to lock common rooms up because the mess is so bad) to show them they need to clean up after themselves. They go to west and see the same kind of behavior and simply imitate and the problem perpetuates itself.
Maria, I think you're right to raise the question you start with, but, I might reply: Perhaps the fact that they don't know is part of the problem. It does seem like it would be a hard quality to judge, but I think the fact of the matter is we're not filtering out many students who make Duke an undesirable living experience for many other students.
Further, I agree with your campus culture hypothesis in so far as it relates to peer-influenced action such as frats and friend groups often see, but if the entire problem is campus culture, why isn't the whole campus participating in such destructive action? Maybe a relevant question here would be to ask: *which* campus culture is the problem? To me this goes back to the point that it is certain individuals that are ultimately to blame rather than some more general notion of culture or learned behavior. Thus, the question remains, how are we to either 1) not let these individuals here in the first place or 2) manipulate their behavior into being more respectful of others (which is especially challenging when the root of the problem doesn't seem to lie in a campus-wide culture as shown above)?
Yes, but if that really is the root of problem, there is no real way of solving it. How does admissions 'filter' out the students that might create this kind of problem? Like you said, there's no real way of knowing based off of a college application. So how do other colleges do it since they don't seem to be getting those students? I think the answer to the second question is that other colleges don't really filter. So how come we always get a disproportionate number of students who can't seem to clean up after themselves? It seems as though Duke, as an institution and based off its reputation, attracts those kinds of students. Its all very bizarre.
Dukes reputation is that it attracts "cool" smart kids.These kids became "cool" in high school by being smart and somewhat wild. Put a few hundred together all competing for attention you get the result that you currently have. The student body is so accomplished that it is difficult to gain acclaim through achievement, but much easier via this type of behavior.
The issue is a lack of respect and pride toward the university. Freshman year I came here and thought the school was perfect. I didn't litter once and often would pick up remaining trash in the commons room.
But as I've gotten to know and love this school, I also gain more and more frustrations with it. I increasingly agree with peers when they complain about costs of attendance and quality of cleaning staff. It seems as though the priority is on punishing students, not preemptively avoiding general trends of poor behavior. RAs are encouraged to write up students to the point where this number contributes to their performance evaluation. Frats don't have houses and live next to independents with often drastically different priorities.
The laundry list continues but the net result is that students slowly change their mindset from "This is my home, I love my home, I respect my home, if a chair is stolen I feel a loss" to "This belongs to the RCs and the administration, they don't care about me and I don't care about them. If a chair is stolen they lose."
Overall the univerity is incredibly progressive in its policies, especially compared to similar inste
...institutions and I love it here, but I feel in the wake of the lacrosse scandal there has been a push to end inappropriate behavior. I just wish the administrators would adopt the mentality of "this is college, this is where students find out who they truly are and become adults. They will and must push their limits in this process, how can we minimize issues and maximize relationships?"
If students had a sense of ownership and pride about these spaces, there wouldn't be these issues.
I guess Hitler, Charles Manson and Stalin were just "pushing their limits". Are you for real? Thats a convenient way to justify almost any behavior. Becoming any adult is about accepting responsibility for ones actions and abandoning the self-centeredness of youth.
I think students should be complaining less about the "quality of cleaning staff" and more about other students who make these messes in the first place. Blaming the cleaning staff is just out of line. They have to clean up students' vomit, feces, and other messes - why don't you hold the students who make those messes accountable first?
And to suggest that the RAs are encouraged to write up students to help performance evaluation is also incorrect. RAs are evaluated by their residents at the end of each semester, not by the number of incident reports they fill out. Go ahead and ask your RA or GR or RC - they will tell you that resident evaluations are the main source of feedback that they receive on their performance, not the number of times they write people up.
The mindset shift you describe is that of a spoiled child. If a student cannot understand that repeated bad behavior (e.g., messes in the common area, furniture being stolen, property defacement) warrants action (including punishment/removal of privileges) by staff, then they do not deserve this stuff in the first place. It is called accountability. Stop blaming the actions of fellow students on cleaning staff, RAs, and RCs, who work to protect students and create healthy and safe living environments. How about getting upset with the students who repeatedly abuse the "home" that you claim to love, and not with those who work to protect it.
13 COMMENTS
Comments
February 8, 2010
Fact Checker
Good column. And a good chronicle of conditions in commons rooms, all of which have escaped the news pages of the Chronicle.
February 8, 2010
AnotherDukeparent
Some suggestions - key card access only to all common rooms and/or closed circuit cameras. Who do you think ends up paying for the stolen furniture, vandalized carpet, etc.?
A four letter slur about female body parts on the floor of a common room in a male/female dormitory is sexual harrassment and constitutes unacceptable behavior. Perhaps it is time for some all female floors in the dorms.
My own student has told me about this type of destructive behavior. It appears to be a Duke phenomenon. It does not happen at any of the universities or colleges attended by their friends.
It is time for Duke housing administrators - that's you, Larry Moneta, to take some action - if not for the destructive behavior - at least about the sexual harrassment of female students entering a common room to find slurs about their body parts on the floor.
February 8, 2010
T-12
AnotherDukeparent, thanks for the contributions. I will say, though, that I doubt DukeCard access to common rooms would prevent any problems, as most of the incidents are results of Duke student activity and it would be likely that the doors would simply be propped open anyways. Cameras to me seem to be somewhat of a band-aid approach, but maybe not altogether out of the question. I wonder, should we begin to blame admissions for allowing excessively destructive students to come to Duke in the first place? Also, it seems like a lot of destructive activity is perpetuated by frats (e.g. throwing furniture out windows) who are then simply allowed to pay their way out of the problems rather than facing any of the other ethical problems associated with their behavior. So maybe we should begin to rethink frat housing/presence on campus as well.
Also, on sexual slurs, what about the drawing of a penis etched into the concrete walkway on the MAIN WEST CAMPUS QUAD??? That has been there for months. Embarrassing.
February 8, 2010
AnotherDukeparent
After many years of being a Duke parent I have personally come to believe you are absolutely correct - admissions does admit students who are excessively destructive and/or have other personality disorders. Students who throw furniture out the windows should not be allowed to pay their way out of their problems. They should be expelled for violent activity.
I also believe that allocating prime housing space on west to selective living groups is not appropriate as they comprise such a small percentage of students and elite is a better term for them than selective. It's time that selective living groups be moved to central campus and their space be available to all students. Or they should become a club/organization that meets on a regular basis without housing just like the sororities have done for decades.
Any sexual slurs no matter the sex should not be tolerated. What do you think would have happened there was a racial or religious slur etched into the concrete walkway on the Main West Campus Quad?
February 9, 2010
Maria
How in the world does admissions know that a student is particularly destructive? I think that is an absurd accusation. Duke students are accepted by various schools all around the country, yet those schools do not have the same problems.
I think its more of a campus culture. Freshman get to East campus and there is nobody there (except for RAs who sometimes have to lock common rooms up because the mess is so bad) to show them they need to clean up after themselves. They go to west and see the same kind of behavior and simply imitate and the problem perpetuates itself.
February 9, 2010
T-12
Maria, I think you're right to raise the question you start with, but, I might reply: Perhaps the fact that they don't know is part of the problem. It does seem like it would be a hard quality to judge, but I think the fact of the matter is we're not filtering out many students who make Duke an undesirable living experience for many other students.
Further, I agree with your campus culture hypothesis in so far as it relates to peer-influenced action such as frats and friend groups often see, but if the entire problem is campus culture, why isn't the whole campus participating in such destructive action? Maybe a relevant question here would be to ask: *which* campus culture is the problem? To me this goes back to the point that it is certain individuals that are ultimately to blame rather than some more general notion of culture or learned behavior. Thus, the question remains, how are we to either 1) not let these individuals here in the first place or 2) manipulate their behavior into being more respectful of others (which is especially challenging when the root of the problem doesn't seem to lie in a campus-wide culture as shown above)?
February 9, 2010
Maria
Yes, but if that really is the root of problem, there is no real way of solving it. How does admissions 'filter' out the students that might create this kind of problem? Like you said, there's no real way of knowing based off of a college application. So how do other colleges do it since they don't seem to be getting those students? I think the answer to the second question is that other colleges don't really filter. So how come we always get a disproportionate number of students who can't seem to clean up after themselves? It seems as though Duke, as an institution and based off its reputation, attracts those kinds of students. Its all very bizarre.
February 9, 2010
Yankee Fan
Dukes reputation is that it attracts "cool" smart kids.These kids became "cool" in high school by being smart and somewhat wild. Put a few hundred together all competing for attention you get the result that you currently have. The student body is so accomplished that it is difficult to gain acclaim through achievement, but much easier via this type of behavior.
February 9, 2010
dukefreethrows
The issue is a lack of respect and pride toward the university. Freshman year I came here and thought the school was perfect. I didn't litter once and often would pick up remaining trash in the commons room.
But as I've gotten to know and love this school, I also gain more and more frustrations with it. I increasingly agree with peers when they complain about costs of attendance and quality of cleaning staff. It seems as though the priority is on punishing students, not preemptively avoiding general trends of poor behavior. RAs are encouraged to write up students to the point where this number contributes to their performance evaluation. Frats don't have houses and live next to independents with often drastically different priorities.
The laundry list continues but the net result is that students slowly change their mindset from "This is my home, I love my home, I respect my home, if a chair is stolen I feel a loss" to "This belongs to the RCs and the administration, they don't care about me and I don't care about them. If a chair is stolen they lose."
Overall the univerity is incredibly progressive in its policies, especially compared to similar inste
February 9, 2010
dukefreethrows
...institutions and I love it here, but I feel in the wake of the lacrosse scandal there has been a push to end inappropriate behavior. I just wish the administrators would adopt the mentality of "this is college, this is where students find out who they truly are and become adults. They will and must push their limits in this process, how can we minimize issues and maximize relationships?"
If students had a sense of ownership and pride about these spaces, there wouldn't be these issues.
February 10, 2010
Yankee Fan
I guess Hitler, Charles Manson and Stalin were just "pushing their limits". Are you for real? Thats a convenient way to justify almost any behavior. Becoming any adult is about accepting responsibility for ones actions and abandoning the self-centeredness of youth.
February 10, 2010
walls
I think students should be complaining less about the "quality of cleaning staff" and more about other students who make these messes in the first place. Blaming the cleaning staff is just out of line. They have to clean up students' vomit, feces, and other messes - why don't you hold the students who make those messes accountable first?
And to suggest that the RAs are encouraged to write up students to help performance evaluation is also incorrect. RAs are evaluated by their residents at the end of each semester, not by the number of incident reports they fill out. Go ahead and ask your RA or GR or RC - they will tell you that resident evaluations are the main source of feedback that they receive on their performance, not the number of times they write people up.
The mindset shift you describe is that of a spoiled child. If a student cannot understand that repeated bad behavior (e.g., messes in the common area, furniture being stolen, property defacement) warrants action (including punishment/removal of privileges) by staff, then they do not deserve this stuff in the first place. It is called accountability. Stop blaming the actions of fellow students on cleaning staff, RAs, and RCs, who work to protect students and create healthy and safe living environments. How about getting upset with the students who repeatedly abuse the "home" that you claim to love, and not with those who work to protect it.
February 10, 2010
T-12
walls, yes!
freethrows, excuses!
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