Fact Checker here. The Chronicle archive turns up this September 14, 2006, column by Kristin Butler, honored as the nation's best college newspaper columnist the following year.
So what's the going rate for a spot at Duke? "At least $250,000 and often seven figures," according to Pulitzer Prize winner Daniel Golden's The Price of Admission: How America's Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges--And Who Gets Left at the Gates.
Golden says the mechanics of this policy are as follows: Each year, the Admissions Office decides independently which students it will take from our very large applicant pool, which numbered nearly 19,400 in 2006. Separately, the University Development Office compiles a list of "likely applicants with rich or powerful parents who are not alumni"; at the height of former President Nan Keohane's Campaign for Duke, this list included as many as 500 names. Eventually, the Development Office's list was narrowed to 160 "must-have" candidates under Keohane, although only 30 to 40 of them were admitted on merit.
For the 120 or so who did not make the cut, Director of Undergraduate Admissions Christoph Guttentag and then-Vice President for Development John Piva met to "debate [each] family's likely contribution against [each student's] academic shortcomings." By the end of the meeting, most of the rejections had been overridden.
As recently as 2001, The Chronicle obtained a report from the Board of Trustees stating that, "one in five [students entering in the Fall of 2000] would not have been admitted without connections to the Office of Development or the Athletic Department." The report goes on to say that these students are "less well prepared academically and personally to contribute to the intellectual atmosphere at Duke," and it concludes by recommending that Duke reduce "the number of admissions spots influenced by the Office of Development by one-third and the number of spots affected by the Athletic Department by one-tenth."
Indeed, the number of so-called development admits has fallen from 99 in 2000 to 58 in 2003--the only years statistics were released. Nevertheless, on Sept. 5, 2006, Guttentag confirmed to Inside Higher Education magazine that development preferences remain institutional policy, saying, "When there is a significant financial interest in the University, we take that into account" for "a small number of students."
President Terry Sanford initiated efforts to transform this University from a regional standout into a national powerhouse. Golden asserts that Sanford, leveraging his political connections as a former North Carolina governor, flagged approximately 200 students per year for "special consideration." Sanford even went so far as to appoint a special envoy, Croom Beatty, to scour the nation's most prestigious schools and zip codes--particularly the Dallas, Texas area--for wealthy applicants. Beatty worked with high school guidance counselors to spread the word that University officials were looking for so-called development admits.
The precipitous rise in the value of our endowment--we've gone from 25th among all universities in 1980 to 16th in 2005--is largely connected to a flood of contributions from non-alumni; indeed, Duke "has led all universities nationwide" in this area. Consider that, in 2002, the alumni giving rate was only 35 percent, whereas 52 percent of the Class of 2003's parents managed to donate funds in addition to their tuition payments.
Regardless of how much cash is generated, development preferences offend our most basic notions of equality and fairness. Indeed, these students have enjoyed every advantage, from access to the best prep schools to personal SAT tutors and beyond. Why, then, should what former admissions officer Rachel Toor described as "the weakest part of our applicant pool" be given "places that could easily have been filled by regular kids?" Truly, this is the most anti-egalitarian and anti-meritocratic policy I have ever encountered in all my time at Duke.
Consider, also, former President Keohane's acknowledgment that development preferences are "disproportionately favorable to white students." Some have even dubbed the practice "white affirmative action," since it reinforces the power of a largely white, Anglo-Saxon plutocracy. Most of these students do not contribute to the athletic prowess or racial diversity of this institution, and they are not legacies, who supposedly foster institutional loyalty and memory. Rather, these kids had the good fortune to be born rich, and this University further rewards them for it.
Cissy Bunn, who is the mother of Maude Bunn, Trinity '05, offered the following observation: "Did my normal child take the place of somebody who could really make a difference in the world? Sure, yes, to an extent. But there are so many things you can lose sleep over. I'm happy for me and my child."
Caroline Diemar, Trinity '03, noted that "everyone has something that got them into Duke. I didn't have athletics, I didn't have race, I wasn't the artistic person, I didn't play an instrument, I wasn't in student government.... Networking is how you go about everything."
Yes, Caroline, you're absolutely right: Each and every one of us is here because an admissions officer saw that special "something" in our file. Of course, I was under the impression that this "something" was related to intellectual achievement, creative talent or perhaps a personal accomplishment. Now I know better. Nevertheless, the task before this University is clear: we must find a way to reconcile our need for donations with our meritocratic values. The first step is to stop pandering to the rich and their children.
Kristin Butler is a Trinity junior. Her column runs every Friday.
Children of wealthy parents should not be discriminated against, either. It is possible to be wealthy and bright. In fact, it's probable. [cite statistics randomly procured on internet]
Can you be an AB Duke semi-finalist and a development case at the same time? (Yes, of course).
Which category do you then fall into?
Does admitting a development student with the exact same GPA and SAT score as a non-development student constitute "pandering"?
I'm somewhat outraged by the assumption that wealthy means dull.
What about faculty children getting free tuition? Should we examine that too?
When I was a senior, I was guaranteed to get into any University of California school based on my GPA and SAT alone...
even though my parents didn't meet the financial aid requirements.
There's a fine line between "pandering to the rich" and "discriminating against the wealthy."
The thing I find both amusing and rather hypocritical about the column by Kristin Butler is that she herself accepted benefits paid for by the families of development admits and other wealthy donors to Duke. For example, she very likely received financial aid from funds provided by those donors, learned from professors whose endowed chairs were established by those donors, and enjoyed the use of beautiful, state-of-the-art buildings paid for by those donors. Then, while accepting the benefits, she turns around and throws mud at the people who provided the benefits. Nice. By the way, if you think that the Ivy League universities and other top universities around the country do not have any development admits, think again.
In as much as Duke University keeps details of its admissions-for-dollars program secret, I cannot see how we can possibly say that as a high school student applying to Duke, Ms. Butler knew of this arrangement. Therefore, we cannot possibly claim hypocrisy on her part for benefiting from those dollars -- when she did not know the tainted source because of Duke's refusal to talk about it.
The subject is "development admits." A term used within the administration, that suggests Duke Parent may have a better known affiliation with Duke than being a parent. It's nice to have you back!!!!
And Parent slops together very craftily much like a good PR man would "families of development admits and other wealthy donors." No one has said a thing about other donors, who did not demand admission for their marginal kids in return for their bucks.
If you are happy with the Dean of Admissions paying a house call on Steve Spielberg at his ocean front mansion to see about his daughter's attending Duke (she wound up at Brown but Papa contibuted to the Duke Annual Fund nonetheless), then I have no message for you.
Being the child of Steven Spielberg does not make one "marginal." (nor does it make one exceptional, notwithstanding the circumstances of being born). Dean Hillerbrand attended an admission party when I was looking at schools, in a wealthy area--SO WHAT. Dartmouth did the same thing; I can't speak for other schools.
Would the editorial board care to explain to me exactly how this program of admitting "development" students is not a zero-sum game? There is no evidence to support this claim made in the article and it seems like an arbitrary assertion. This is a very selective private university; you can claim that one or two new students can be added to the incoming freshman class without nudging out other applicants, but I have trouble believing that the same applies when the "development" offers number in the hundreds, as the 2006 editorial cited above claims.
It's a disgustingly brilliant business practice, yes, but granting admission to unqualified by wealthy students is an insult to the notion of a merit-based institution. Even giving preferential treatment to the wealthy when all other factors are equal, as Trinity03 mentions, is a sketchy practice simply because it introduces a factor that has no bearing whatsoever on the student's individual merits.
Yes, the facilities here are nice. Yes, the students here certainly enjoy them. That doesn't mean it's enjoyable to consider that other students are here not because of their merit but because of the depth of their parents' pocketbooks.
Geoff Schoos provides some reflections on what it means to adhere to the core value of equal protection and equal access to opportunity in America:
Recently, I came across the following passage that I’d like to share:
“It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth cannot be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages, artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society – the farmers, mechanics, and laborers – who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their Government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing.”
The above statement was not made by some disengaged philosopher with his head in the clouds. Nor, was it made by some statesman long lost to antiquity.
Rather, this statement of democratic ideals was written by our seventh President, Andrew Jackson and quoted in American Lion, Andrew Jackson in the White House by Jon Meacham.
The language quoted above was contained in Jackson’s message that accompanied his veto of legislation that would have renewed the charter of the national bank. He saw the bank as a vehicle through which public money was loaned out to the wealthy and powerful to the detriment of the average man.
The parallels from that time to this, especially here in Rhode Island, are striking. With each passing year, too many in the executive branch aided by a significant number of legislators have placed state government on the side of the “rich and powerful”.
Recently, in my column for the Cranston Herald, I wrote about the power of ideas and their affect on policy outcomes. The role of government in a democratic society is a big idea with outcome implications. The budget submitted by the Governor clearly places the state government on the side of the few against the many. As Jackson might say, this budget is the embodiment of an evil.
The notion that government, “shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor” transcends mere partisanship. Rather, it is the core value of our society. It is what separates us from most of the rest of the world and for so long made us that “shining city on a hill” for the rest of the world. When we permit the perversion of that core value, we lose the essence of who we are and what we strive to be.
Trinity03: no one is calling out you specifically as being unqualified to hold a Duke degree. If you were one of the most qualified applicants, then great... that's the whole point. No one is accusing you of being stupid. If (and I know you probably weren't) you were less qualified than your peers as a high-school senior and slipped in on your parents' money, you're the only one who would even have to know. It's a beautiful thing, a student's right to privacy.
However, our speaking out against letting your parents' money or influence be a factor in obtaining admissions to a program that is ostensibly based on academic merit seems to offend you.
Airing your dirty laundry and defending your academic credentials is your decision and not the point of my discussion. I honestly doubt anyone else here cares, either... unless you were given preferential treatment.
People respect a Duke degree--or really, a degree from any prestigious university--because it implies the holder is both intelligent and well-educated. However, practices like this can easily mar the public perception of the Duke brand. Which is the reason a Duke degree is respectable: the perception that Duke is a school for smart people or the perception that it is a school for rich people?
All that being said, to the best of my ability I can only guesstimate that "development" cases who genuinely are under-qualified probably make up 3-5% of the undergraduate body, or possibly even less. I would not call this an overwhelming problem... at the same time, it's not a practice that earns anyone's respect.
The proof that this is not an overwhelming problem lies in the average GPA and SAT scores of the incoming classes, which are very high and which weigh very heavily in the U.S. News rankings, which place Duke in the top 10 of all U.S. universities. The Financial Times also ranks Duke as one of the top 15 universities in the world, which is hardly consistent with the idea that Duke is nothing but a haven for the unqualified children of the wealthy elite.
I am interested in your comment about the public de-estimation of the Duke brand. I have seen other people make similar comments on this website, usually the small group that is still beating the lacrosse case to death four years after the fact. But I never see anyone offer any proof to support this statement. The way I see it, the number of students applying to Duke keeps going up and up every year; the percentage of those students that Duke is able to accept therefore keeps going down and down, meaning that it is more and more difficult to gain admission to Duke; U.S. News ranks Duke as one of the top 10 universities in the country; the Financial Times ranks it as one of the top 15 universities in the world; Duke students continue to gain admission to top graduate and professional programs all across the country; yet you post a comment claiming that there has been a public de-estimation of the Duke brand. Would you please provide us with some hard evidence to prove that your reference to the de-estimation of the Duke brand has some basis in fact and is not just a figment of your imagination and a product of the fact that you just do not like the way in which the Duke administrators handled the lacrosse case.
Hard work and money aren't necessarily correlated, but that's a completely different discussion that's not worth getting into here. The money in question would be your parents' money and not your own, so even if they worked for it, you didn't.
On the other hand, you do work for your grades--unless you let your parents do your schoolwork for you, too.
To be fair, it's pretty easy for intelligent students to breeze through high school without too much effort, taking the AP or IB track and doing well on their standardized tests. I certainly can't argue that it's easy to determine the relative merits of different students when the top applicants all have the credentials of being top in their class with great standardized test scores and several hours' worth of college credit already taken care of.
That does not justify the need to consider family wealth in admissions decisions. Like I said earlier, it is a shrewd business decision on Duke's part with no relevance to academics. It may be a necessary evil as Duke Parent is so fond of pointing out, but I would expect legal adults to be able to function on their own merits and not those of their parents. The same expectation obviously does not hold in the "development"-seeking admissions process.
Ok, Parent. You're right. I'm biased about how the administration handled the lacrosse case. But when I was a student, an annual Duke party appeared in Playboy--
hardly a sign that this is a University known for its academic excellence.
As is well known to everyone who has followed this board since the Brodhead administration and the 88 brought disgrace to Duke in 2006, "Duke Parent" is none other than the corpulent bon vivant John Burness, former Duke PR hack.
So when you were a student, an annual Duke party appeared in Playboy and this somehow shows that Duke is not known for academic excellence and also somehow outweighs the fact that Duke is ranked as one of the top universities in the country by U.S. News and one of the top universities in the world by the Financial Times? At least you were honest in admitting that your comment is not supported by any real facts but just reflects your personal unhappiness about the handling of the LAX case.
To Harry Lime,
Ah, yes, the standard, moronic comment that if you do not just blindly accept any and all criticisms of Duke and President Brodhead posted on this website, you must be John Burness. So creative.
20 COMMENTS
Comments
October 30, 2009
Duke Duke and M...
Fact Checker here. The Chronicle archive turns up this September 14, 2006, column by Kristin Butler, honored as the nation's best college newspaper columnist the following year.
So what's the going rate for a spot at Duke? "At least $250,000 and often seven figures," according to Pulitzer Prize winner Daniel Golden's The Price of Admission: How America's Ruling Class Buys Its Way into Elite Colleges--And Who Gets Left at the Gates.
Golden says the mechanics of this policy are as follows: Each year, the Admissions Office decides independently which students it will take from our very large applicant pool, which numbered nearly 19,400 in 2006. Separately, the University Development Office compiles a list of "likely applicants with rich or powerful parents who are not alumni"; at the height of former President Nan Keohane's Campaign for Duke, this list included as many as 500 names. Eventually, the Development Office's list was narrowed to 160 "must-have" candidates under Keohane, although only 30 to 40 of them were admitted on merit.
For the 120 or so who did not make the cut, Director of Undergraduate Admissions Christoph Guttentag and then-Vice President for Development John Piva met to "debate [each] family's likely contribution against [each student's] academic shortcomings." By the end of the meeting, most of the rejections had been overridden.
As recently as 2001, The Chronicle obtained a report from the Board of Trustees stating that, "one in five [students entering in the Fall of 2000] would not have been admitted without connections to the Office of Development or the Athletic Department." The report goes on to say that these students are "less well prepared academically and personally to contribute to the intellectual atmosphere at Duke," and it concludes by recommending that Duke reduce "the number of admissions spots influenced by the Office of Development by one-third and the number of spots affected by the Athletic Department by one-tenth."
Indeed, the number of so-called development admits has fallen from 99 in 2000 to 58 in 2003--the only years statistics were released. Nevertheless, on Sept. 5, 2006, Guttentag confirmed to Inside Higher Education magazine that development preferences remain institutional policy, saying, "When there is a significant financial interest in the University, we take that into account" for "a small number of students."
President Terry Sanford initiated efforts to transform this University from a regional standout into a national powerhouse. Golden asserts that Sanford, leveraging his political connections as a former North Carolina governor, flagged approximately 200 students per year for "special consideration." Sanford even went so far as to appoint a special envoy, Croom Beatty, to scour the nation's most prestigious schools and zip codes--particularly the Dallas, Texas area--for wealthy applicants. Beatty worked with high school guidance counselors to spread the word that University officials were looking for so-called development admits.
The precipitous rise in the value of our endowment--we've gone from 25th among all universities in 1980 to 16th in 2005--is largely connected to a flood of contributions from non-alumni; indeed, Duke "has led all universities nationwide" in this area. Consider that, in 2002, the alumni giving rate was only 35 percent, whereas 52 percent of the Class of 2003's parents managed to donate funds in addition to their tuition payments.
Regardless of how much cash is generated, development preferences offend our most basic notions of equality and fairness. Indeed, these students have enjoyed every advantage, from access to the best prep schools to personal SAT tutors and beyond. Why, then, should what former admissions officer Rachel Toor described as "the weakest part of our applicant pool" be given "places that could easily have been filled by regular kids?" Truly, this is the most anti-egalitarian and anti-meritocratic policy I have ever encountered in all my time at Duke.
Consider, also, former President Keohane's acknowledgment that development preferences are "disproportionately favorable to white students." Some have even dubbed the practice "white affirmative action," since it reinforces the power of a largely white, Anglo-Saxon plutocracy. Most of these students do not contribute to the athletic prowess or racial diversity of this institution, and they are not legacies, who supposedly foster institutional loyalty and memory. Rather, these kids had the good fortune to be born rich, and this University further rewards them for it.
Cissy Bunn, who is the mother of Maude Bunn, Trinity '05, offered the following observation: "Did my normal child take the place of somebody who could really make a difference in the world? Sure, yes, to an extent. But there are so many things you can lose sleep over. I'm happy for me and my child."
Caroline Diemar, Trinity '03, noted that "everyone has something that got them into Duke. I didn't have athletics, I didn't have race, I wasn't the artistic person, I didn't play an instrument, I wasn't in student government.... Networking is how you go about everything."
Yes, Caroline, you're absolutely right: Each and every one of us is here because an admissions officer saw that special "something" in our file. Of course, I was under the impression that this "something" was related to intellectual achievement, creative talent or perhaps a personal accomplishment. Now I know better. Nevertheless, the task before this University is clear: we must find a way to reconcile our need for donations with our meritocratic values. The first step is to stop pandering to the rich and their children.
Kristin Butler is a Trinity junior. Her column runs every Friday.
October 30, 2009
Trinity03
Children of wealthy parents should not be discriminated against, either. It is possible to be wealthy and bright. In fact, it's probable. [cite statistics randomly procured on internet]
Can you be an AB Duke semi-finalist and a development case at the same time? (Yes, of course).
Which category do you then fall into?
Does admitting a development student with the exact same GPA and SAT score as a non-development student constitute "pandering"?
I'm somewhat outraged by the assumption that wealthy means dull.
What about faculty children getting free tuition? Should we examine that too?
When I was a senior, I was guaranteed to get into any University of California school based on my GPA and SAT alone...
even though my parents didn't meet the financial aid requirements.
There's a fine line between "pandering to the rich" and "discriminating against the wealthy."
October 30, 2009
Duke Parent
The thing I find both amusing and rather hypocritical about the column by Kristin Butler is that she herself accepted benefits paid for by the families of development admits and other wealthy donors to Duke. For example, she very likely received financial aid from funds provided by those donors, learned from professors whose endowed chairs were established by those donors, and enjoyed the use of beautiful, state-of-the-art buildings paid for by those donors. Then, while accepting the benefits, she turns around and throws mud at the people who provided the benefits. Nice. By the way, if you think that the Ivy League universities and other top universities around the country do not have any development admits, think again.
October 30, 2009
Duke Duke and M...
In as much as Duke University keeps details of its admissions-for-dollars program secret, I cannot see how we can possibly say that as a high school student applying to Duke, Ms. Butler knew of this arrangement. Therefore, we cannot possibly claim hypocrisy on her part for benefiting from those dollars -- when she did not know the tainted source because of Duke's refusal to talk about it.
The subject is "development admits." A term used within the administration, that suggests Duke Parent may have a better known affiliation with Duke than being a parent. It's nice to have you back!!!!
And Parent slops together very craftily much like a good PR man would "families of development admits and other wealthy donors." No one has said a thing about other donors, who did not demand admission for their marginal kids in return for their bucks.
If you are happy with the Dean of Admissions paying a house call on Steve Spielberg at his ocean front mansion to see about his daughter's attending Duke (she wound up at Brown but Papa contibuted to the Duke Annual Fund nonetheless), then I have no message for you.
October 30, 2009
Trinity03
Being the child of Steven Spielberg does not make one "marginal." (nor does it make one exceptional, notwithstanding the circumstances of being born). Dean Hillerbrand attended an admission party when I was looking at schools, in a wealthy area--SO WHAT. Dartmouth did the same thing; I can't speak for other schools.
October 30, 2009
Trinity03
In other words, I might as well complain that Claire Danes took my spot at Yale, for the love of G-d.
October 30, 2009
Duke White Male
Ok so some rich white kids get into Duke because of their rich alumni parents, not because they deserve it.
But some poor black and hispanic kids get into Duke because of their ethnicity, when they were not qualified academically or financially for Duke.
They offset, and we get a rich, diverse learning experience.
If the rich white kids don't get in the money to let in poor blacks and hispanics doesn't exist.
October 31, 2009
Flatlander
Would the editorial board care to explain to me exactly how this program of admitting "development" students is not a zero-sum game? There is no evidence to support this claim made in the article and it seems like an arbitrary assertion. This is a very selective private university; you can claim that one or two new students can be added to the incoming freshman class without nudging out other applicants, but I have trouble believing that the same applies when the "development" offers number in the hundreds, as the 2006 editorial cited above claims.
It's a disgustingly brilliant business practice, yes, but granting admission to unqualified by wealthy students is an insult to the notion of a merit-based institution. Even giving preferential treatment to the wealthy when all other factors are equal, as Trinity03 mentions, is a sketchy practice simply because it introduces a factor that has no bearing whatsoever on the student's individual merits.
Yes, the facilities here are nice. Yes, the students here certainly enjoy them. That doesn't mean it's enjoyable to consider that other students are here not because of their merit but because of the depth of their parents' pocketbooks.
October 31, 2009
Trinity03
Oh. You thought life was fair. Answer this: how does being born smart entitle you to attend Duke more than being born rich does.
October 31, 2009
Trinity03
Furthermore, what is the meaning of equality, while you're at it.
October 31, 2009
Trinity03
Geoff Schoos provides some reflections on what it means to adhere to the core value of equal protection and equal access to opportunity in America:
Recently, I came across the following passage that I’d like to share:
“It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth cannot be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages, artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society – the farmers, mechanics, and laborers – who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their Government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing.”
The above statement was not made by some disengaged philosopher with his head in the clouds. Nor, was it made by some statesman long lost to antiquity.
Rather, this statement of democratic ideals was written by our seventh President, Andrew Jackson and quoted in American Lion, Andrew Jackson in the White House by Jon Meacham.
The language quoted above was contained in Jackson’s message that accompanied his veto of legislation that would have renewed the charter of the national bank. He saw the bank as a vehicle through which public money was loaned out to the wealthy and powerful to the detriment of the average man.
The parallels from that time to this, especially here in Rhode Island, are striking. With each passing year, too many in the executive branch aided by a significant number of legislators have placed state government on the side of the “rich and powerful”.
Recently, in my column for the Cranston Herald, I wrote about the power of ideas and their affect on policy outcomes. The role of government in a democratic society is a big idea with outcome implications. The budget submitted by the Governor clearly places the state government on the side of the few against the many. As Jackson might say, this budget is the embodiment of an evil.
The notion that government, “shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor” transcends mere partisanship. Rather, it is the core value of our society. It is what separates us from most of the rest of the world and for so long made us that “shining city on a hill” for the rest of the world. When we permit the perversion of that core value, we lose the essence of who we are and what we strive to be.
(randomly procured from internet at http://kmareka.com/2009/03/22/showering-favor-on-all-the-meaning-of-equa...)
October 31, 2009
Locomotive Breath
"Answer this: how does being born smart entitle you to attend Duke more than being born rich does."
No one is born smart. Smart is earned by hard work.
Born rich is unearned.
October 31, 2009
Flatlander
Locomotive: Thank you.
Trinity03: no one is calling out you specifically as being unqualified to hold a Duke degree. If you were one of the most qualified applicants, then great... that's the whole point. No one is accusing you of being stupid. If (and I know you probably weren't) you were less qualified than your peers as a high-school senior and slipped in on your parents' money, you're the only one who would even have to know. It's a beautiful thing, a student's right to privacy.
However, our speaking out against letting your parents' money or influence be a factor in obtaining admissions to a program that is ostensibly based on academic merit seems to offend you.
Airing your dirty laundry and defending your academic credentials is your decision and not the point of my discussion. I honestly doubt anyone else here cares, either... unless you were given preferential treatment.
People respect a Duke degree--or really, a degree from any prestigious university--because it implies the holder is both intelligent and well-educated. However, practices like this can easily mar the public perception of the Duke brand. Which is the reason a Duke degree is respectable: the perception that Duke is a school for smart people or the perception that it is a school for rich people?
All that being said, to the best of my ability I can only guesstimate that "development" cases who genuinely are under-qualified probably make up 3-5% of the undergraduate body, or possibly even less. I would not call this an overwhelming problem... at the same time, it's not a practice that earns anyone's respect.
October 31, 2009
Duke Parent
The proof that this is not an overwhelming problem lies in the average GPA and SAT scores of the incoming classes, which are very high and which weigh very heavily in the U.S. News rankings, which place Duke in the top 10 of all U.S. universities. The Financial Times also ranks Duke as one of the top 15 universities in the world, which is hardly consistent with the idea that Duke is nothing but a haven for the unqualified children of the wealthy elite.
October 31, 2009
Trinity03
Smart is earned by hard work? Really? Since when?
Isn't money also earned by hard work?
I'm not defending myself, my laundry is clean, and I would challenge the notion that a Duke degree is "respectable."
Duke has other, far more pressing factors contributing to a public deestimation of the brand image, IMO.
October 31, 2009
Duke Parent
I am interested in your comment about the public de-estimation of the Duke brand. I have seen other people make similar comments on this website, usually the small group that is still beating the lacrosse case to death four years after the fact. But I never see anyone offer any proof to support this statement. The way I see it, the number of students applying to Duke keeps going up and up every year; the percentage of those students that Duke is able to accept therefore keeps going down and down, meaning that it is more and more difficult to gain admission to Duke; U.S. News ranks Duke as one of the top 10 universities in the country; the Financial Times ranks it as one of the top 15 universities in the world; Duke students continue to gain admission to top graduate and professional programs all across the country; yet you post a comment claiming that there has been a public de-estimation of the Duke brand. Would you please provide us with some hard evidence to prove that your reference to the de-estimation of the Duke brand has some basis in fact and is not just a figment of your imagination and a product of the fact that you just do not like the way in which the Duke administrators handled the lacrosse case.
October 31, 2009
Flatlander
"Is money earned by hard work?"
Hard work and money aren't necessarily correlated, but that's a completely different discussion that's not worth getting into here. The money in question would be your parents' money and not your own, so even if they worked for it, you didn't.
On the other hand, you do work for your grades--unless you let your parents do your schoolwork for you, too.
To be fair, it's pretty easy for intelligent students to breeze through high school without too much effort, taking the AP or IB track and doing well on their standardized tests. I certainly can't argue that it's easy to determine the relative merits of different students when the top applicants all have the credentials of being top in their class with great standardized test scores and several hours' worth of college credit already taken care of.
That does not justify the need to consider family wealth in admissions decisions. Like I said earlier, it is a shrewd business decision on Duke's part with no relevance to academics. It may be a necessary evil as Duke Parent is so fond of pointing out, but I would expect legal adults to be able to function on their own merits and not those of their parents. The same expectation obviously does not hold in the "development"-seeking admissions process.
October 31, 2009
Trinity03
Ok, Parent. You're right. I'm biased about how the administration handled the lacrosse case. But when I was a student, an annual Duke party appeared in Playboy--
hardly a sign that this is a University known for its academic excellence.
I'll have to get back to you.
October 31, 2009
Harry Lime
As is well known to everyone who has followed this board since the Brodhead administration and the 88 brought disgrace to Duke in 2006, "Duke Parent" is none other than the corpulent bon vivant John Burness, former Duke PR hack.
October 31, 2009
Duke Parent
To Trinity 03,
So when you were a student, an annual Duke party appeared in Playboy and this somehow shows that Duke is not known for academic excellence and also somehow outweighs the fact that Duke is ranked as one of the top universities in the country by U.S. News and one of the top universities in the world by the Financial Times? At least you were honest in admitting that your comment is not supported by any real facts but just reflects your personal unhappiness about the handling of the LAX case.
To Harry Lime,
Ah, yes, the standard, moronic comment that if you do not just blindly accept any and all criticisms of Duke and President Brodhead posted on this website, you must be John Burness. So creative.
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